Mike Lesczinski
I'm Mike Lesczinski, Director of Charter School Information at the SUNY Charter Schools Institute and Welcome to the More Great Seats for Kids Podcast, a new series diving deep into the SUNY authorization process and the high standards and best practices that make New York's charter schools so successful. For our first show we will start at the start. Specifically, the application process. Maureen Foley, Director of New Charters, is our first guest. Together we will learn about our RFPS and the review process, essential elements of every application and how applicants can set themselves up for success. Then we chat with Dr Christopher Manning, founding executive director,  of Buffalo Creek Academy, which was approved for a new charter in October 2019. Dr. Manning discusses the overall experience, including his approach to the application, helpful resources he was able to tap into, and his advice for aspiring charter school applicants. Enjoy.  
Mike Lesczinski
All right, welcome, Maureen. Not to put  too much pressure on you, but you are a very first guest.
Maureen Foley
Wonderful. I'm very excited,
Mike Lesczinski
As am I. So I want to start off with a bit of background for our listeners. Some context. You are the Director of New Charters. Can you explain a bit about your role and responsibilities, and perhaps how a new applicant may interact with you.
Maureen Foley
Yes, so as Director for New Charters, I lead the application review process for all new and replicating schools, and I serve as a lead reviewer on all new school applications. I also separately from application review of the lead reviewer on all first year school visits. So once the school is authorized and is in its first year of operation, always undergoes a first year visit, and I'll lead the process for that as well. But primarily, I spend my time overseeing the development of the RFP in the fall, releasing that and then working with applicants to guide them through the application process.
Mike Lesczinski
So in terms of the RFP, where do we stand right now? What does the schedule look like?
Maureen Foley
Yeah, so we're in the final stages of developing the 2020 RFP. It goes through a couple of rounds of drafting and various spokes in different departments at the institute will take a look at it and weigh in. Our lawyers are finance folks,  etcetera, and then our Executive Director Susie will conduct a final review. We are looking to post a draft of the RFP for public comment sometime around the beginning of December, and we allow people anywhere who can access our website to take a look at the draft RFP and submit comments to us via email if there are things that they think ought to be changed or additional questions. We'd like to ask any comments that people may have on the RFP and we leave that on our Web ite for a couple of weeks, and then we take any feedback that we receive and determine internally as a group, whether we want to incorporate it and what changes if anyone would like to make. And then we post the final RFP usually right after the first of the year. Probably the first business day after January 1st,
Mike Lesczinski
And our website is New York charters dot org. So we'll have a posted there and because of the cap in New York City, the RFP is for upstate schools.
Maureen Foley
Yeah, as of now, we're only able to accept applications from applicants outside of the five boroughs, so essentially upstate and Long Island should that change at any point during the year certainly we will incorporate that into the RFP will probably publish additional information to our website so that applicants within the five boroughs know what they need to do. But as of now, we're operating under the assumption that will only have charters to grant outside of the five boroughs.
Mike Lesczinski
So who can apply for a charter?
Maureen Foley
A charter is available to a parent, teacher, district resident or current school administrator or, if you're looking to replicate a charter just an existing Education Corporation. And usually the board chair asks the nominal applicant. But yeah, for independent charters, it's generally a parent, a teacher within the district or on existing school administrator who's looking to create a new and potentially innovative option within the district where they reside or work.
Mike Lesczinski
So let's start digging into the application itself. How do you set yourself up for success?
Maureen Foley
Yeah, so the first thing I would say is to familiarize yourself with the current year's R F P. Even if you're looking to submit an application a year or two out because they do take a long time to develop, it really makes sense to sit down with the RFP on the site, the website as it exists, and read that thing from cover to cover. Alot of perspective. applicants reach out to us early in the process and start asking us questions, and it's evident that they haven't yet read the RFP. And really, that's where you need to start. Take a look at the website, our website. There's a brief overview of the application review process and then the RFP itself will give applicants a sense of the work involved and there's a good bit of it, So that would be the first thing I would say. And once you familiarize yourself with the RFP, if you think you have the beginnings of an idea or a founding group, I always encourage applicants to reach out to the institute, myself specifically and asking any questions that they might have. We find that applicants who have a couple of touch points with the institute during the application development process tend to produce better applicants simply because they have a better understanding of the process. I think sometimes folks were hesitant to reach out to us because they think that that might indicate, you know, some level of lack of capacity, but that's really not the case. It's a really rigorous process, and there's a lot that's involved in it. And the myself and people in the different departments at the institute can offer guidance in terms of what applicants need to be on the lookout for when they're developing a financial plan, for example, or when they're looking at compliance, we can put them in touch with our attorneys. We certainly are not going to provide applicants with any specific feedback on their plans, we're pretty agnostic, and we certainly we're not going to read any drafts that applicants developed because that's not our place. But we'll help them through the process and let them know maybe you put them in touch with different resources, including consultants, websites, other schools and folks that they may want to talk to. That is really part of my role in one of the parts of my job that I like the most, is talking to applicants and guiding them through the process,
Mike Lesczinski
And there are specific elements required of every application. Talking about the community, the need...
Maureen Foley
Yes, so you know, there are the obvious elements of an application, including, you know, what, a really detailed description of the school's curriculum and academic program. We want you to talk about how you're gonna develop school culture and approach discipline. Everything. You know, the obvious things that go into developing a school are all present there. The staffing plans, personnel. What school leadership is gonna look like? What's the educational philosophy? We also ask applicants to do an analysis of the existing education options in the district where they would locate their school. We ask that it's called an analysis of need. So the R F P outlines specific information and data that applicants actually have to find about the district that where they would locate including, you know, what are what's a list of all of the current private in public or charter options that parents have not have access to, you know, currently on. And then we asked him to make a case based on that analysis for why they're proposed program is necessary, and it would be, you know, a positive addition to that school. So that district's education landscape, and then we also ah, really important part of the application process is the community outreach portion, so we kind of falls into three, sometimes overlapping buckets. So we ask for just general community outreach. We ask for applicants to notify the community of their plans and then also get input from community members on their plans. And, you know, that includes their academic program, that they're offering a particular theme or, you know, educational program. If it's gonna be single gender or a stem focus, what have you? We really want applicants to provide us with evidence that they've gone out into the community, interacted with people face to face online etcetera, and gotten some authentic feedback on the plans that they have. And then we also want them to provide us with some evidence that they've incorporated that feedback into their school design. And sometimes that entails changing the grade levels that they thought they may have originally offered. Sometimes folks, you know, go in thinking I want to offer a middle school program and they hear from families, and actually the demand is for an elementary school program or something like that. Or, you know, parents might say they really want a particular academic offering so a school will incorporate a foreign language into their academic program or something like that. So it doesn't need to be an overhaul of the program as designed. But we like to see that applicants have made a good faith effort to interact with community members and get their feet back on the design. The other sort of category within the community outreach area is just community support for the school. So once you've informed folks about it, and these kind of all taken take place at the same time once you've informed  folks about your plans for the school, we want you to provide us with evidence that people want it and support it. The most common evidence of this is just letters of support. And we received letters of support, for example, from elected officials in the district from the local level, right on up to the state or federal level. We get letters from congressman, you know, and women supporting applications. In some cases, we get lots of we'll get emails. Sometimes folks can provide us just like an email from a community member, whomever indicating that they support the school petitions can be really compelling. Online surveys in person surveys on we actually asking the application for the if it's a scanned piece of paper with a bunch of signatures on it. We actually asked people to provide that to us so that we have evidence that there's a reasonable amount of support for the school in the community. And then the last bit of the outreach piece is evidence of demand for the school. And this is probably the most specific. We look for evidence that parents who have children who would be of the age that students would be when they're enrolling in the school when it becomes operational have indicated that they're interested in rolling their student. This isn't finding it anyway we don't want. It's not reasonable for applicants to ask parents to commit to anything before the school exists, but we do want to see again a good faith effort that you've gone and interacted with families, you know, For example, if you're starting an elementary program, we want to see that you've interacted with families of preschool age students, have gone to some head start centers, maybe some day care centers, and gotten evidence you know, again in the form of signatures or something like that, that parents are excited about the program that you're offering and would be willing to explore the option of enrolling their student of the school. So that can sometimes be the trickiest piece for applicants. But we do look for all three of those things.
Mike Lesczinski
So providing evidence, especially around community support and engaging with the institute early...Any other best practices you would like to share with listeners?
Maureen Foley
I mean, I would say there are lots of different things that folks can do, and a lot of it depends on their context, you know, For example, if you're, you know, proposing a school in Buffalo or versus Rochester's versus Bronx, the resources that are available to you are going to defer. And also the communities that you're serving are gonna differ. So the approach is that you take are gonna defer accordingly. But I would say certainly for all applicants, do your best to get into some existing schools in your district and take a look at classrooms and talk to people and allow that to inform your design and really talk to people who know education So if you are someone who is proposing a school and you are not an educator, it's important that you get some folks on your founding team and some support from people who have school based experience to inform the design. Because sometimes someone with the best laid plans who wasn't familiar with how schools operate. Well, you know, I have a hard time putting together an application simply because they don't have that base of knowledge. So I would say in general, just be aware of the resource is that may be available to you in the district where you were proposing to locate. Do your best to avail yourselves of them. And if you don't know what they are, contact us and we'll do our best to put you in touch with,
Mike Lesczinski
So let's talk a bit about the actual RFP process itself. Once the applications submitted, where does it go?
Maureen Foley
Right. So first thing applicant should be aware of is that we use an online platform called Epicenter for them to submit their applications, and this is all actually in the RFP. But we asked you to email us a little bit in advance of submitting the first part of the application, which is an intent to apply form so that we can get you all set up in that system. Which is another reason we encourage candidates to be our applicants to be in touch with us early in the process. So they will submit all of the materials and there are a lot of them. It tends to be a pretty significant amount of digital stuff that applicants need to submit. They'll submit that threw at the center, and then we will let applicants no, once they've submitted a full application if there's anything missing. So we do an immediate sort of just general completion check with the members of our team to make sure that none of the requests were overlooked in any specific information that needs to be included in the application isn't missing. And if there is anything missing, we'll let applicants no and give them a pretty short timeline to submit any of those missing materials. So ah, good reminder for applicants to really make sure that everything is complete before they've submitted it. So that's the first part and then we will get in touch with applicants shortly thereafter to let them know whether we think the application as submitted warrants a full review. So we have these basic minimum eligibility requirements, mainly having to do with completion that have to be in place in order for us to review, to agree to review an application. In some cases, applicants will submit incomplete materials and materials that indicate the application just doesn't have, ah, strong viability of turning into a qualified proposal. So we'll ask them to protect potentially submit those materials again at another time during a different application round. But assuming everything is complete, we will do an intake process for the application internally. And what applicants often experience is just sort of like a period of time where they don't hear from us. But what is happening is that we are reading and very closely reviewing applications. So once we've received a complete application and decided that we're going to review it, we obviously distributed to the members of our team, and everybody sits down and spends a good chunk of time with each application really closely reading it and evaluating it for quality. Not only do the members of the institute team review applications. But we also convene a panel of external consultants with various areas of expertise. Usually we put anywhere from 2 to 4 consultants on each application, and they will read the application in its entirety. And everybody takes a couple of weeks to do that, depending on the number of applications that we receive in any given round. And then the next phase of the process for us is that we all get together in person, typically in New York City, and everybody who read the application, including institute staff and folks who have academic expertise or finance staff, are legal staff, etcetera. And the consultants who read the application will sit down and spend usually about an hour or two discussing each application that was submitted. I will all share our general thoughts on the viability of the proposal, and we'll go through each of the requests one by one and discuss what you know based on what the applicants submitted. One are the strengths and weaknesses of the proposed school based on that conversation. Institute staff will then convened shortly thereafter and make a determination at that point whether the application warrants moving forward in the process. So that's sort of like the first gateway that applicants experience. Usually about, I'd say, about six or so weeks out from submitting applications will receive communication from us indicating whether the application is gonna move forward to the interview process. And we always contact applicants directly by phone to let them know if they're moving forward or not. If an applicant is moving forward to what we call the capacity interview generally, that takes place not too long after we notify you, so the turnaround could be kind of tight. We do let all applicants no early in the process, what those dates are. So we asked them to block them off because we do require all lead applicants and as many board members as they can assemble to be present at the in person interview and the more members of the founding team that can actually be present there, the better we do require the board to be present as well, because we really want to talk to the folks who are gonna be governing the school capacity. Interviews last anywhere from an hour to two hours, and the questions generally revolve around questions, questions that we had coming out of our review of the applications. So based on the conversation that we had internally and with our consultants, we will probe the applicant on, you know, everything that's present in the application, anything we had questions about, where that wasn't clear areas where we might have some concern or things that we want them to clarify. Kind of, really, it's it's a rigorous interview will sort of put them through their paces. And we want to hear from all the various members of the founding team as it exists. You know, we want to judge their capacity tow, launch the school and keep it operational, and take it through the rigorous process of starting a charter school. So we conduct our interviews. They vary in location, depending on where applications air coming from. We've conducted them in New York City frequently, but we sometimes hold them at our own office in Albany or in other parts of the state, depending on where the applicants are from and then pretty much rate. After those interviews take place, we make another determination internally about whether the application is gonna continue to afford, so that's another sort of gateway for the applicants on then we obviously communicate to that to them shortly after the interview about whether the application is gonna be moving forward or not. Generally, at that point were determining whether we think in application is gonna be recommended for approval or not. They're still some parts of the process that need to take place. But that's sort of like essentially the final determination. Most applicants also go through a request for amendments process at that point, the actual charter application that you submit if the application is if the school's approved by the trustees. Actually, it's appended to your charter, which is a legally binding document. So we need to make sure that all of the information included in those materials is legally compliant and, you know, meets all of our basic standards will be expect from a school. So the request amendments process is an opportunity for applicants to clarify in writing anything that might require clarification. So ah, a lot of times our legal team will give them specific requests for amendments you know, make edits or adaptations to their bylaws or things like that, or sometimes our academic team members will ask for further elaboration on the academic program. Depending on you know, the quality of the written application as submitted, they might go through one or more rounds of request for amendments process, and that's all just done via email. I usually guide that and just send the request to the applicant's directly and indicate to them. You know, they usually have about a week to turn things around, so it's a little tight, but we try to get a reasonable amount of time for folks to submit things. And then before we actually would make a recommendation to our trustees at a committee meeting for approval, the Chair of the Charter Schools Committee meets with the applicant teams to do a further assessment of their strength and their capacity. So before it goes before the full committee, they have the opportunity to meet with the chair of the committee, and he or she will ask them questions related to his or her assessment of the application summary that we've prepared for them. So that's another opportunity for applicants to kind of make their case, and then finally the last step in the process is that the charter actually gets voted on. The institute is actually not empowered to make our own decisions about whether the application gets approved or not. We make recommendations to the Charter Schools Committee, which is a subcommittee of the larger SUNY Trustees . They're the ones who vote on the approval or not of the charter based on the recommendation that we make and based on the materials that we submit to them. So that usually takes place at a charter Schools Committee meeting, which are usually held in New York City. And we invite any applicants whose charters are gonna be voted on at that time to join us at that meeting. Generally, it's a really exciting and happy time when folks get their charter approved and it's, you know, our trustees like to bring the applicants up to the table. It's a public meeting to ask them some questions and probe them on some things that they may want to know and again assess. Their capacity to open the school is designed, but assuming the trustees are on board with the recommendation that the institute has made, and usually they are, they vote and the charter gets approved.
Mike Lesczinski
There is a lot that goes into this.
Maureen Foley
Quite a bit. Yes, it's a it's a It's a rigorous process and one that we think really allows us to evaluate the application and only identify those that have a really strong chance of becoming an excellent school for children.
Mike Lesczinski
So if you're thinking about somebody application or know someone who is contact Maureen.
Maureen Foley
Yes and educate yourself, you know, read the materials that we have available on the website. Certainly read the RFP and you know, if you do have questions at that point, I'm happy to talk to folks and just sort of point them in the right direction.
Mike Lesczinski
So we have just a few minutes left. Any final thoughts or advice for listeners?
Maureen Foley
I would just say that it probably goes without saying, but developing a charter application is a really significant undertaking. It takes a tremendous amount of time, and resource is, and in some cases it requires a little bit of money. So I would encourage folks, not to approach it lightly. But that said, if someone has a really good idea and thinks they have the capacity to pull together some resource is and a founding team, then certainly we're happy to talk to them about it and put them in touch with resources that may be available. The institute is generally agnostic when it comes to school models, but certainly we want to be able to generate more seeds for kids, great seats for kids particular. So I would encourage folks who are curious about the process or think they might have an idea at whatever stage of the process, whether they just came up with an idea within the last couple of days or have kind of been working on something, maybe for a little while, to get in touch with us, and we'll do our best to help him along and give them some feedback on, you know, whether it's a viable plan or not.
Mike Lesczinski
And now here's my interview with Dr. Christopher Manning, Founding Executive Director of Buffalo Creek Academy.  
Mike Lesczinski
Dr Manning. Welcome to the show.
Christopher Manning
Thank you, Mike. Glad to be here.
Mike Lesczinski
I believe we last saw each other at the New York Charter School Association event in October, and Syracuse, which was about a week or so after Buffalo Creek was approved for a new charter. So how have you been? How is the planning here? Progressing.
Christopher Manning
It's going really well. We have currently we've built our team. So are our founding team has broken into two teams. Right, So you now have the board directors and we have the management staff and our managing staff is growing and planning is going very well. Community is being very responsive. And so so far, so good.
Mike Lesczinski
So for our first episode, we're diving into the application process. We just had a fantastic interview with Maureen Foley, our Director of New Charters on the ins and outs and some of the best practices. So I'm very interested in learning about your experiences as someone who just lead Buffalo Creek successfully through the process. So how did you approach it?
Christopher Manning
Say, if I were to characterize our approach, it was really methodically. We knew that it was one of those scenarios where you eat an elephant one bite at a time, so to speak. So we knew that it was gonna be a very, very intense and rigorous process. We knew that it was going to take us all into a scenario that none of us had been before and the guards to proposing to start a charter school. So I believe we took also a very informed approach. So we did our homework and due diligence and reading the guidance that was provided by SUNY conferring with many different experts in the area of charter. And we did so with the good sense of the level of attention to detail that was going to require we knew that it was going to acquire a lot of collaboration between us and the greater community. We also knew that it was going to be time intensive, so we knew that was gonna take a great deal of sacrifice on our parts. And, um and everyone, everyone carry their weights and everyone everyone was leaving forward throughout the entire process, which ultimately led to our press. Yes.
Mike Lesczinski
So you are a Building Excellent Schools fellow, can you talk a little bit about the assistance that they provided, as well as some of the other resources you were able to tap into along the way.
Christopher Manning
Sure, definitely. Yes, I am a BES fellow, 2018 fellow. I'm so yes, I definitely would be remiss if I didn't mention just how fundamentally important. The BES program was to contribute to our success. So it was a resource to me as the lead founder, but also to the rest of the team in terms of helping us go to the process and negotiate the application process. So, first and foremost a resource BES, when you're a fellow, you're assigned different types of coaches, executive coaches. So you have a school design coach, governance coach and the other people who are helping you and developing the team getting the right people on board and also helping you think through the different elements of your school design. Because they've seen very successful models, they have also seen unsuccessful models. So that was a really good resource to have. And in addition to that SUNY provides a guidance handbook. So there's there's two things happening. You're speaking to the community and ensuring that your responsive to the needs of the community and you're trying your best to put it on paper, right? And then when you put it on paper, it has to be in a way to where the authorizer's and those who are making the decisions about the capacity of your application can really get a sense of what you're trying to build and how it is going to manifest itself into a high quality school option for family. So it's, uh it's word smithing. In addition to just you have to make sure that you're your application is just breathing competence. So BES and SUNY's guidance had a really big part in that as well as tapping into the staff and the personnel who were involved. That's a really big part, too. So communication was huge on bet. So confirming what my BES coaches, our team here in Buffalo, speaking with the community and keeping those lines of communication continuously open was helping us gained more and more clarity on our vision for the school and what it would be and how respond to the needs of the community. And then, of course, keeping ourselves apprised of SUNY standards because because SUNY was very steadfast in those standards.
Mike Lesczinski
So when did you first approach the institute and how were you able to build working relationships with the individual members of our staff?
Christopher Manning
So it was roughly around this time last year, I I recall that was the first time that I had spoken to institute staff, travel to New York City, to the global office there to SUNY, and it was just really it was. I met Susie and her team. So Susie, Keegan and Maureen were there, and it was just really just discussing New York State and what was occurring in New York state of time and just introducing myself as the lead applicant of our growth And what initially, at that point in time, what our deals are ideals were  and what our vision was on and what we intended to know, whether we were attending to open a kindergarten to eighth grade school or 5th grade through 2th grade school. So that was really just a conversation. Just what is it? I Intent to Apply form type discussion, And it really was, You know, you're touching your toe in the water before you jump in type situation. So that was that was the first time I had met the staff, and really, the communication lines were we're open from that point forward. So their relationships the relationship that we had with um the SUNY Charter School Institute staff was very productive. Very fruitful on our part because they kept themselves very accessible. So we were not afraid to pick up the phone. And after for clarity on one on one standard of the other when we're trying to respond to it so and you know, in some cases way didn't want to do was go on and on the standard. And, you know, so that we're were voicing exactly what we intend to do in that area without really knowing exactly what it was asking for. So and it was, you know, Keegan, Maureen. They made it very clear. Hey, you know, we're not gonna tell you what to write in the charter. Obviously, that's you guys job. But if you have questions that there's some confusion, don't be afraid to contact us. And he did. And that was this huge resource for us and ensuring that we were on the right track.
Mike Lesczinski
That was one point that Maureen emphasized over and over again in our conversation was the importance of engaging with institute early and often so as you approach this process, Did you visit other schools? If so, what did you look for? What types of questions did you ask.
Christopher Manning
So yes, well, in order to collect evidence, I visited roughly 42 schools across the country. This is a part of the BES program, so as a fellow, a lion's share of our time was spent in flight schools doing school studies, conducting school studies. So you're there from a rival up into this missile. In many cases, you're in classrooms or in the hallways. They're dissecting school in very small. We call it dense license. Yes, and you're trying to understand the systems that are supporting what's happening in front of you, but also the curriculum that moves the teachers are making. And you have access to the school leader who we always have a chance to interview and ask about of the genesis up there, their organization. And often times we're speaking to the founders where they were discussing their founding stages and exactly how they were clarifying vision during the early days of their school, and I also was able to visit schools in the state that was most important. So some really some schools are pretty established, right? Democracy Prep, but the schools, for example, this was founded by a BES fellow, but also some more recent schools, relatively speaking, for Forte Prep, Academy and Blaze Academy. These were also schools that I have little spent a great deal of time. In fact, Get a residency and Forte Preparatory Academy and Democracy Prep Harlem Public Prep middle school and these were definitely informed a lot of our design, because it's one thing to put it on paper and know that it's has been successful. But it's also wanting to actually go there and see the living, breathing school and know exactly how the school is going towards high proficiency in English Language Arts and Mathematics, having really strong cultures to support rigorous academics but also aligning themselves with New York State next generation lending standards. That was really important as well. So it was visiting schools and studying schools was it was essential to make sure that we were designing our school to be a successful model. And you know, another resource is looking at those successful applications that have punished me in the past. And when you read through the application of what the group was saying they wanted to do, and when you're, equipped with that application, when you walk into the school that is very powerful. You read through with the school application team was saying they were intending to do with you walking and you see itself. You see it right in front of you that's very powerful. So then it brings alive what you're doing when you're writing, and you know just how important it is because what you're putting in an application has major implications as to what is going to occur just roughly a year after its approved. It's gonna be a school children are gonna be their families are gonna be impacted. So the community's gonna gain another choice so that school visits were essential to our success.
Mike Lesczinski
Any final advice for, uh, for applicants?
Christopher Manning
Certainly, I would definitely say, start communicating with the community as soon as possible because the RFP template simply requires applicants evidence need in the community demanded a community and support for another choice, all requiring a solid grasp on the details around what the community wants so that it needs to be informed by community voice. So the Charter Schools Institute  requires it, and after well, charter schools are a part of the new choices Quote, quality, choice, educational options, for parents. So we have, as African groups choose to provide option that you need to choose that death necessarily the voice that that's something that they actually want. You wouldn't know that if you don't communicate with them. And that also helps you sharpen your vision on what you want to bring forward. So definitely communicate with what the committee as quick as possible and understand it is that narrative process. Be patient with the process and keep the communication open with institute staff for clarity. That would be the advice. That was good,
Mike Lesczinski
Dr. Manning. Thank you very much for joining us.
Christopher Manning
Okay. Well, thank you, Mike. Thanks for having me. Always a pleasure to speak to you. And I hope to see you again.
Mike Lesczinski
That's all for today's episode, please take a moment to subscribe to the show on Apple podcasts and give us a rating  and post a review. Doing so will help more people find the show. Music for this episode was by Lee Rosevere and Young Kartz. Our website is New York Charters dot org. Thanks again